Ramble ramble. My hands are unhappy.
Dec. 28th, 2009 04:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
keykLook at me fail at writing an essay on how I will positively impact the WORLD by going to this ONE COLLEGE. Especially since my mom insists I get help from my siblings. But she doesn't understand I find that degrading, so she is not at fault. Besides, I already did. They're not that helpful. Still. I am going to keep musing.
Now I haven't played all of the PL games, or read all of the Holmes or Lupin or even Kaito stories or played Umineko (and no one knows how it'll end) or read all of its manga, my understanding of P4 and Devil Summoner is based entirely on the few chunks I saw while my sister was playing, I only vaguely know the second Trace Memory's plot, we are all waiting for Hotel Dusk 2, I have only read Suiri no Kizuna of Spiral, had a cursory glance over Knox's and people's opinions and another set of rules as to what mysteries should be, so I am obviously missing a lot of info here.
But We're going to rant and act like We know things.
The point:
It looks like I really like BAD mysteries. I'm serious, too.
SPOILER WARNING: Skip this paragraph if you want to start off with a clean slate before jumping into the world of Layton. This paragraph doesn't have any plot spoilers. This is a vague outline of how I see the Layton games, which could give away what one would expect from the game.
The Professor Layton series is a good example. It chucks Knox's commandments OUT THE WINDOW. But see, that's a good chunk of the reason why I like it. It is so uncanny that it's...ADORABLE. It's like a children's mystery story filled with D'AW. It's not trying to be some dismal mystery novel where everything GOES WRONG and only Sir Smarty Pants figures out why. It's more like, this is a fun puzzle game for all ages with a cute story but a mystery you will never figure out without our solving it for you. Seriously. It makes for a HORRIBLE mystery...except, well, there were actually clues pointing to the outcome, shockingly enough. But it's Professor Layton logic. It makes no sense.
SPOILER WARNING: There are Sherlock Holmes spoilers here. But I don't say which story, so read at your own risk.
Now I haven't read all of the Sherlock Holmes stories, but I don't like them all, let's say that. For being THIS popular, I was expecting the books to be more...well, MYSTERY like. One of the stories included Holmes looking up in an encyclopedia how some "barbarian" looked. It basically told him they were short and ugly. And this was evidence. SERIOUSLY? And that some strange inexplicable exotic poison was used. Inexplicable drugs have been used more than once in Sherlock Holmes. And then he was shot to death AND NO ONE CARED. That irritating plot aside, Holmes can actually be pretty crafty. His deductions do tend to make sense. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle doesn't exactly give the reader much room for figuring things out themselves since a lot of the clues are noted only by Holmes and not by our bumbling dolt of a narrator, Watson. The stories I've read do not make for a good mystery, actually. But since it was written in Victorian England, and before mysteries could be weighed good or bad (that was more the early 1900s), I'll let it off the hook.
Now let's go to the latest Sherlock Holmes movie. There's magic (although, it reminds me of Umineko, but it's all about MAGIC DOES NOT EXIST). There's romance (In Victorian England? SCANDALOUS! I didn't care much for it, as per usual). There are mysterious chemical compounds. All of which are no-no's to the laws that make up a good mystery. Unlike the stories I've read, in this case, the clues WERE shown and could be recognized by the movie watcher. The techniques, of course, only Holmes was able to figure out. But there was plenty of room for thought, especially since it visually showed Holmes's thought processes. It was a fun movie, but not what you'd call a good mystery nowadays.
Still, I really like Sherlock Holmes as a character, so I keep reading anyway.
SPOILER WARNING: This time Magic Kaito and some of his appearances in the Conan manga/anime, and Arsene Lupin, whom he was based on. These are mostly hints as to how they've pulled off their heists, and again, no telling which story is which.
Arguably, these aren't mysteries since we're following the culprit and not the detective (well, except when Conan is the main guy.) Lupin takes his own twist to that when he pretends he's trying to find himself on a cruise ship, but it was a good trick, messing with the narration, I'll give LeBlanc that. According the laws that apparently make a good mystery, it doesn't do, except that LeBlanc put enough hints to make the reader understand that no one else could be the culprit, so I think it actually worked well. I enjoyed the few Lupin stories I've read over Holmes stories because it felt a lot more logical and more puzzly. When Lupin escapes from prison, and the detective tries to figure things out, he's stumped. The one thing that bothers me is the need of an accomplice. I got to place A to place B because I had an accomplice. My accomplice did this and that for me, and so I was able to escape. I was able to swim somewhere mysterious and escape being taken to prison again. Usually the accomplice is forgotten after that. That bothers me.
And here, we switch to Kaito. Now Kaito is simply not as crafty as Lupin. He runs through crowds and NO ONE NOTICES HIM. Black costume or not, COME ON. He uses a hang glider. As far as I understand, you don't get a lot of control using those things. And here he also disobeys a good-mystery-law: I use professional magic tricks. Aand, he also has an accomplice. Tends to use him. At least here, we usually know who it is, but I remember one of the anime episodes, it's just some random guy off the block who happened to be working there. It just feels to deus ex machina-y. But the one most not mystery-esque thing of all is the use of disguises. People can see through disguises. How Kaito (or Lupin even) whips up a disguise in a matter of minutes and manages to get the voice spot on is nothing short of impossible. Bad mystery elements galore.
Now Holmes sometimes makes the stage in Lupin. The clues are there though, since Watson isn't busy being a bad narrator. Although the secret passageway apparently makes for a bad mystery, too. Then when Conan does it, the clues are also there (they usually are in the Conan stories), except...I don't understand how Conan accepts many of Kaito's schemes as plausible.
But, dude, they're so fun to read. I like reading these things while rooting for the, uh, "wrong side"!
SPOILER WARNING: Short Spiral Suiri no Kizuna dump here. No spoilers, just pointing out the BAD MYSTERY aspects of it.
Funky science! Secret societies! Disguises, love interests, too character-y. More bad mystery, yes? It's more of a let's show off my logic and how well I can read into people BEFORE YOU GUYS KILL ME kinda thing really. The author calls it a mystery, but it really isn't. Some arcs are mysteries, yes, but most aren't. But, logic wars are so much fun, especially when everyone's on edge! Mystery or not, it was fun.
SPOILER WARNING: Does this end? Anyway, here we go to the Ace Attorney games, Trace Memory, touch on Hotel Dusk, P4 and the newer Devil Summoners and some Umineko! All four. No big spoilers since I don't say which game or which case (for AA) or who does it but just certain techniques that the game employs.
Now, I enjoy going through the Ace Attorney games. But. We have funky mystic magic here! Magic tricks are used! Disguises! Look-alikes! Hired hitmen! Yeah, not a good mystery according to the laws that people seem to go by now. But at least the clues are given and the player's are pretty made to figure things out, well, logically. And with made up legal stuff (another bad mystery maker). Illegally obtained evidence galore!
Trace Memory is also not a good mystery according to THEM. A ghost? Funky science? Not to mention our MC's not really a detective. But again, the player can figure things out themselves! Good. In fact, you have to. Same goes with Hotel Dusk. Hotel Dusk is actually pretty mystery-esque. It kinda follows L.A. Noir standards straight. But there's less evidence and more tying words and memories together here. MC's not really a detective either, but, hey, as far as I remember, there was no supernatural forces helping here.
P4. Supernatural forces at work. What kind of culprit is this. Can this even be considered murder. Love interests. Logic is...often thrown out the window, actually! The detective here detects, but isn't who you follow most of the time and can be seen as the Watson when compared to the player. Second detective tends to also detect, but joins up in the whole let's get to understand every character mess (arguably, first detective does, too). Sap aside though, it was fun. Devil Summoner. Oh look, an actual detective who is there from the beginning, too! Who's a bum and makes the non-detective do all the work. He helps though, at least. Supernatural forces, of course, are at work. Also silly science magic woo-hahs. And again, what kind of culprit is this. Anyway, totally not a mystery, but they both had their good points. You end up "playing detective" with supernatural forces...but at least you get to learn about said supernatural forces and use it in your logic.
Umineko is just a mess. What else is it? It's got magic, but hoh, it's not really magic. OR IS IT?! So he writes about murders and warns people not to trust what they see or hear. Which makes this an...I don't even know. As far as I know, it doesn't follow how a mystery works at all. It's reminiscent of Ten Little Indians by Agatha Christie with magic (or not) at work. And repeating itself. Several times. Christie's book could be figured out by the reader, but, like Umineko, it goes through too much backstory and too character-y to be, so they say, a good mystery. But, dadgum it, it's fun. Umineko has you try to solve the mystery AND figure out what's fantasy and what's not.
...this is too disorganized and windbaggy to be called an essay, and too long to hold anyone's attention the whole way, I'd wager. I wrote this mainly because I am crossing over many fandoms (not books, unfortunately, though they'll help) into a biig mystery mashup to ensure plenty of chaos and logic NOT applying while applying at the same time! So it gets me rolling and thinking about it. It really will be chaotic, especially since these bad mysteries each have different rules I'll have to follow. In addition to that, the 1930s AU I'm still working on is a mystery (also a bad mystery according to those rules--I agree with some not all, in case you were wondering), but the player is expected to take the clues and figure things out. Aaaand beat people up in the way, and maybe puzzles, if it isn't too overstuffed by then. It'll be fun.
Longest line of tags I've ever seen.
Now I haven't played all of the PL games, or read all of the Holmes or Lupin or even Kaito stories or played Umineko (and no one knows how it'll end) or read all of its manga, my understanding of P4 and Devil Summoner is based entirely on the few chunks I saw while my sister was playing, I only vaguely know the second Trace Memory's plot, we are all waiting for Hotel Dusk 2, I have only read Suiri no Kizuna of Spiral, had a cursory glance over Knox's and people's opinions and another set of rules as to what mysteries should be, so I am obviously missing a lot of info here.
But We're going to rant and act like We know things.
The point:
It looks like I really like BAD mysteries. I'm serious, too.
SPOILER WARNING: Skip this paragraph if you want to start off with a clean slate before jumping into the world of Layton. This paragraph doesn't have any plot spoilers. This is a vague outline of how I see the Layton games, which could give away what one would expect from the game.
The Professor Layton series is a good example. It chucks Knox's commandments OUT THE WINDOW. But see, that's a good chunk of the reason why I like it. It is so uncanny that it's...ADORABLE. It's like a children's mystery story filled with D'AW. It's not trying to be some dismal mystery novel where everything GOES WRONG and only Sir Smarty Pants figures out why. It's more like, this is a fun puzzle game for all ages with a cute story but a mystery you will never figure out without our solving it for you. Seriously. It makes for a HORRIBLE mystery...except, well, there were actually clues pointing to the outcome, shockingly enough. But it's Professor Layton logic. It makes no sense.
SPOILER WARNING: There are Sherlock Holmes spoilers here. But I don't say which story, so read at your own risk.
Now I haven't read all of the Sherlock Holmes stories, but I don't like them all, let's say that. For being THIS popular, I was expecting the books to be more...well, MYSTERY like. One of the stories included Holmes looking up in an encyclopedia how some "barbarian" looked. It basically told him they were short and ugly. And this was evidence. SERIOUSLY? And that some strange inexplicable exotic poison was used. Inexplicable drugs have been used more than once in Sherlock Holmes. And then he was shot to death AND NO ONE CARED. That irritating plot aside, Holmes can actually be pretty crafty. His deductions do tend to make sense. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle doesn't exactly give the reader much room for figuring things out themselves since a lot of the clues are noted only by Holmes and not by our bumbling dolt of a narrator, Watson. The stories I've read do not make for a good mystery, actually. But since it was written in Victorian England, and before mysteries could be weighed good or bad (that was more the early 1900s), I'll let it off the hook.
Now let's go to the latest Sherlock Holmes movie. There's magic (although, it reminds me of Umineko, but it's all about MAGIC DOES NOT EXIST). There's romance (In Victorian England? SCANDALOUS! I didn't care much for it, as per usual). There are mysterious chemical compounds. All of which are no-no's to the laws that make up a good mystery. Unlike the stories I've read, in this case, the clues WERE shown and could be recognized by the movie watcher. The techniques, of course, only Holmes was able to figure out. But there was plenty of room for thought, especially since it visually showed Holmes's thought processes. It was a fun movie, but not what you'd call a good mystery nowadays.
Still, I really like Sherlock Holmes as a character, so I keep reading anyway.
SPOILER WARNING: This time Magic Kaito and some of his appearances in the Conan manga/anime, and Arsene Lupin, whom he was based on. These are mostly hints as to how they've pulled off their heists, and again, no telling which story is which.
Arguably, these aren't mysteries since we're following the culprit and not the detective (well, except when Conan is the main guy.) Lupin takes his own twist to that when he pretends he's trying to find himself on a cruise ship, but it was a good trick, messing with the narration, I'll give LeBlanc that. According the laws that apparently make a good mystery, it doesn't do, except that LeBlanc put enough hints to make the reader understand that no one else could be the culprit, so I think it actually worked well. I enjoyed the few Lupin stories I've read over Holmes stories because it felt a lot more logical and more puzzly. When Lupin escapes from prison, and the detective tries to figure things out, he's stumped. The one thing that bothers me is the need of an accomplice. I got to place A to place B because I had an accomplice. My accomplice did this and that for me, and so I was able to escape. I was able to swim somewhere mysterious and escape being taken to prison again. Usually the accomplice is forgotten after that. That bothers me.
And here, we switch to Kaito. Now Kaito is simply not as crafty as Lupin. He runs through crowds and NO ONE NOTICES HIM. Black costume or not, COME ON. He uses a hang glider. As far as I understand, you don't get a lot of control using those things. And here he also disobeys a good-mystery-law: I use professional magic tricks. Aand, he also has an accomplice. Tends to use him. At least here, we usually know who it is, but I remember one of the anime episodes, it's just some random guy off the block who happened to be working there. It just feels to deus ex machina-y. But the one most not mystery-esque thing of all is the use of disguises. People can see through disguises. How Kaito (or Lupin even) whips up a disguise in a matter of minutes and manages to get the voice spot on is nothing short of impossible. Bad mystery elements galore.
Now Holmes sometimes makes the stage in Lupin. The clues are there though, since Watson isn't busy being a bad narrator. Although the secret passageway apparently makes for a bad mystery, too. Then when Conan does it, the clues are also there (they usually are in the Conan stories), except...I don't understand how Conan accepts many of Kaito's schemes as plausible.
But, dude, they're so fun to read. I like reading these things while rooting for the, uh, "wrong side"!
SPOILER WARNING: Short Spiral Suiri no Kizuna dump here. No spoilers, just pointing out the BAD MYSTERY aspects of it.
Funky science! Secret societies! Disguises, love interests, too character-y. More bad mystery, yes? It's more of a let's show off my logic and how well I can read into people BEFORE YOU GUYS KILL ME kinda thing really. The author calls it a mystery, but it really isn't. Some arcs are mysteries, yes, but most aren't. But, logic wars are so much fun, especially when everyone's on edge! Mystery or not, it was fun.
SPOILER WARNING: Does this end? Anyway, here we go to the Ace Attorney games, Trace Memory, touch on Hotel Dusk, P4 and the newer Devil Summoners and some Umineko! All four. No big spoilers since I don't say which game or which case (for AA) or who does it but just certain techniques that the game employs.
Now, I enjoy going through the Ace Attorney games. But. We have funky mystic magic here! Magic tricks are used! Disguises! Look-alikes! Hired hitmen! Yeah, not a good mystery according to the laws that people seem to go by now. But at least the clues are given and the player's are pretty made to figure things out, well, logically. And with made up legal stuff (another bad mystery maker). Illegally obtained evidence galore!
Trace Memory is also not a good mystery according to THEM. A ghost? Funky science? Not to mention our MC's not really a detective. But again, the player can figure things out themselves! Good. In fact, you have to. Same goes with Hotel Dusk. Hotel Dusk is actually pretty mystery-esque. It kinda follows L.A. Noir standards straight. But there's less evidence and more tying words and memories together here. MC's not really a detective either, but, hey, as far as I remember, there was no supernatural forces helping here.
P4. Supernatural forces at work. What kind of culprit is this. Can this even be considered murder. Love interests. Logic is...often thrown out the window, actually! The detective here detects, but isn't who you follow most of the time and can be seen as the Watson when compared to the player. Second detective tends to also detect, but joins up in the whole let's get to understand every character mess (arguably, first detective does, too). Sap aside though, it was fun. Devil Summoner. Oh look, an actual detective who is there from the beginning, too! Who's a bum and makes the non-detective do all the work. He helps though, at least. Supernatural forces, of course, are at work. Also silly science magic woo-hahs. And again, what kind of culprit is this. Anyway, totally not a mystery, but they both had their good points. You end up "playing detective" with supernatural forces...but at least you get to learn about said supernatural forces and use it in your logic.
Umineko is just a mess. What else is it? It's got magic, but hoh, it's not really magic. OR IS IT?! So he writes about murders and warns people not to trust what they see or hear. Which makes this an...I don't even know. As far as I know, it doesn't follow how a mystery works at all. It's reminiscent of Ten Little Indians by Agatha Christie with magic (or not) at work. And repeating itself. Several times. Christie's book could be figured out by the reader, but, like Umineko, it goes through too much backstory and too character-y to be, so they say, a good mystery. But, dadgum it, it's fun. Umineko has you try to solve the mystery AND figure out what's fantasy and what's not.
...this is too disorganized and windbaggy to be called an essay, and too long to hold anyone's attention the whole way, I'd wager. I wrote this mainly because I am crossing over many fandoms (not books, unfortunately, though they'll help) into a biig mystery mashup to ensure plenty of chaos and logic NOT applying while applying at the same time! So it gets me rolling and thinking about it. It really will be chaotic, especially since these bad mysteries each have different rules I'll have to follow. In addition to that, the 1930s AU I'm still working on is a mystery (also a bad mystery according to those rules--I agree with some not all, in case you were wondering), but the player is expected to take the clues and figure things out. Aaaand beat people up in the way, and maybe puzzles, if it isn't too overstuffed by then. It'll be fun.
Longest line of tags I've ever seen.
